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madra View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 Jan 10 at 19:37
OK. i know this is an old chestnut, but worth rolling into the fire every now and then, for all that:


the recent cold snap we had, during which i suffered the ignominy of having to get out with a shovel and hack away two channels in the ice, so herman could get back up the driveway after an outing and a similarly embarrassing incident during the summer when, in spite of spinning his wheels like dervishes, he still failed to negotiate a very slight sandy incline leading into a forest park in ireland,  have led me to pining again for the days when i used to always drive 4x4s. [before my LT i had 3 landrovers, an old nissan patrol and then an equally old isuzu trooper].

my dream vehicle would be a van of around LT size, but with off-road ability.   in other words a 4x4 campervan. i've been scrimping and saving for a few months already and i reckon that, with a bit of discipline, i could have somewhere around six grand - give or take a shilling or two - saved by the summer.  since my birthday's in june, i'm daydreaming about treating myself to a new waggon of some sort around then.  so, the options i'm considering:

1: a 4x4 LT.  this would probably be the 'dream ticket' but i've heard the 4WD LT40s and LT45s are like hens' teeth to get hold of.  even if i were to find one, chances are it would mean importing from germany, which sounds like it would be A: risky, B: expensive and C: a bureaucratic nightmare

drool!




2: a volvo C303 or C306 - the B-side of the dream ticket.  not as much room inside as an LT but unbelievable off-road capabilities.  i've seen a few go on ebay for around the £5000 - £7000 mark but, again, they're pretty rare and even rarer in diesel version [which i'd much prefer to a girly petrol engine Big smile]

i prefer the look of the C303 - really cute, but the C306 has six chunky big off-road wheels and wins out on the mad max scale!





3: a toyota landcruiser - an old 60 series or 80 series.  legendarily bulletproof and unbeatable off-road ability and available with a gusset-moistening 4,2litre turbo diesel engine - no more planning in advance, to get a good run up  for the next hill LOL].  i have seen them [mainly in australia] converted into mini camperwaggons, by stripping the back and fitting a pop-top roof.  obviously nowhere near as roomy as an LT, but you could probably fit at least a bed, sink and a couple of cupboards in there. plus, since i'm a one-car family, whatever i buy has to double up as my daily drive.  so this would be a bit more practical for doing the weekly shopping in.

series 60 - arguably the most capable mass-production 4x4 ever



series 80 - individual coil sprung [as opposed to solid axle with the series 60] so not q-u-i-te as unbeatable off-road.  but more mod cons and comfort for those weekly asda missions.




4: a VW syncro.  i must admit [tho' it may be sacrilege in certain quarters on this forum] that i've never been too keen on the looks of the VW syncros.  i find them a bit too 'normal' looking.  that said however, my trawling of the web leads me to believe they are surprisingly good off-road, so might be a good choice for a 'go anywhere' camper van. again, tho' i've heard that finding a good syncro for sensible money is a bit of a minefield.

syncro - surprisingly able off-road






5: a unimog 404.  unimogs tend to hold their value incredibly well, so even 20 year old models are still going for £15000 and upwards on ebay.  so, if you're after a mog and on limited funds that pretty much means going for the old 404s from the 1960s and 1970s.  consequently the 'mog option' would undoubtedly mean a lot of extra work as regards repairs and aminatenance, before you even got around to thinking of camper conversion.  i've also heard that the gearing on the axles means they dinnae really like being driven above about 40 or 50mph on the road, so progress would be mighty slow [mind you, i'm used to that.  i've got a non-turbo LT!].  that said, the old mogs are also pretty unbeatable off-road and this pic shows what you can do with an old unimog 404 given enough time, love [and presumably money].

double drool



finally...

6: i dunno if this option is even feasible but i'm thinking that, with a few grand to play with, i could probably afford to get herman converted to 4WD and even have enough pennies left over to engine swap a turbo diesel in there as well.  i think this option is probably more based in sentimentality than sense as, to be honest, it would be a bit silly to throw all that money into an old LT [even if it were doable], but i do have a soft spot for the old thing, slow and clunky tho' he is.

so there you have it.  what would you folks do? - or are there any other options i've missed out?

[of course, having posted this pipe-dreaming thread, i'll probably go into work on monday and find i've been made redundant and all my savings will promptly vanish like morning dew.  but it's nice to daydream in the meantime!]

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ..lee.. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 10 at 21:30
i`ve been wanting a lt 4x4 for a while now i`d have settled for a florida a while back but going from my syncro to a 2wd lt would annoy me. as much as i love the lt`s they have none or very little traction even on wet grass.
 
i`ve looked at other 4x4 camper vans and unless i can find / build a lt 4x4 i`m not going to bother, nowt offers the interior space of the lt for a similar out side size.
 
russel knows these lt 4x4`s well and i gather converting a lt35 or smaller will have issues as the front suspension is totally different and the chassis are apparantly smaller.converting a lt 40 / 45 would be easier and i think getting the engine and transfer box mounted should be simple enough. finding axles may not be so simple. most common 4x4`s are too narrow and i gather suitable axles are very costly.
 
be nice to get the low down on exactly what would be needed to create your own lt 4x4 as this is something i`d really like to attempt in the future.
 
lee.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeJay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 10 at 11:49
 
 "a similarly embarrassing incident during the summer when, in spite of spinning his wheels like dervishes, he still failed to negotiate a very slight sandy incline leading into a forest park in ireland,  have led me to pining again for the days when i used to always drive 4x4s."
 
hey madra, I'd have thought you being an old 4x4 driver you would've known better, what's wrong with the old drop the drive axle tyre pressures to approx 15 psi and 1st (crawler on an LT Big smile) gear and let him trundle up the incline on tickover, bet you herman would've made it on his own LOLLOLLOL
NIL ILLIGITIMUS CARBORUNDUM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ELVIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 10 at 12:05
 There is a fella up in scotland who deals in 303s and they are nowhere near 7k in price.
   Also keep an eye open for civvie 202s.
 
Unimogs are totally impractical for anything other than off road, gearboxes/ratios are a cock of a twat - you do get used to them after a few months........................
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ELVIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 10 at 12:11
Apparently he dosnt now..............
 
   maybe thats why prices have gone silly!
 
Landcruiser would be best out of yout list IMHO - drivetrain/diffs are bulletproof.
  Considered a G wagon ? 6k should buy you something respectable.
 
I had a 3l diesel auto . Axle lockers/centre diff as standard. Change between hi/lo and engage lockers whilst on move.Parts cheap enough. Impossible to kill/break.
 
 i recovered many a 'challenge' spec LR with ARB lockers and all the bling bits in mine.
 
www.difflock.com  if you want to waste a few years of your life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote madra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 10 at 09:44
Originally posted by BeJay BeJay wrote:

 
...what's wrong with the old drop the drive axle tyre pressures to approx 15 psi and 1st (crawler on an LT Big smile) gear and let him trundle up the incline on tickover...


hey.  i was on me holidays, looking for somewhere to pull in at the side of the road, so i could get in the back, cook me brekkie, wash it down with a beer and relax for a couple of hours.  it wasnae really an 'i must get across here - even if it means wrestling for half an hour with the footpump!' moment.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ..lee.. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 10 at 10:01
thing is all you lt owners have been spoilt when it comes to camping room.LOL  so if the next stage for you is something with 4wd where do you go. its all well and good running a landcruiser or similar as an explor vehicle if the weather is lovelly but i couldn`t live with that little space inside with bad weather.
 
the newer lt / sprinter come with 4wd and haveing looked about at differant 4wd`s i thought one of these would be an option but i dont think they`d be anywhere near as good as an lt 4x4 with regards to inside space and off road capability.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote madra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 10 at 10:13
only last night, i was musing on the merits of a sprinter 4x4 and watched a couple of vids on youtube which, allegedly showed their off-road ability.  i must say i wasnae too impressed; they seemed to cope with your average forest track OK, but grounded out on slopes and stuck fast whenever there was a bit of mud about.

added to which, the sprinter 4x4 is just so fecking boring looking.  it's like every other identi-kit van on the road these days.   why does no-one make anything with a bit of personality, any more?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ..lee.. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 10 at 10:25
i know. i`m the same with the moddern stuff. i just cant warm to them, some i can grow to like but they need to prove themselves in some way first. not many do.
 
since the turn of the 90`s the motor manufacturers have been building things designed to fail and designing difficulties in to the vehicles thus making repairs more difficult which in turn take longer to do which then inturn releaves the buying public of more of their money.
 
dont think we`ll ever see the day when vehicles are built in the same way the germans did in the 80`s hence my collection of t3`s.
 
i hope to have one for every occasion and an lt 4x4 family camper would just finish off my plans lovelyThumbs Up.
 
wanted.... lwb florida 4x4 ................badly.Cool.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ELVIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 10 at 10:51
pinzgauer...............................
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote madra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 10 at 11:27
oops! - thought i'd mentioned the 'pinzis' in my list above.

down side: right up there with the mogs, as regards purchase price.  they really hold their value

up side: much easier to get hold of a diesel one

and...

[i think] better axle/gearbox ratios than the mogs  for on-road driving

might as well add it to the gallery:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ELVIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 10 at 11:37
 Just to recap , in brief, what do you want it for ?  Toy/work etc ? Miles a year ? Where you gonna drive it ? What ya gonna use it for ? etc etc
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ELVIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 10 at 11:47
 ok , how about a UAZ ? 452 or 3303
    Been looking/thinking for ages as bit of a pipedream me'sel.
SiL is Estonian and her dad is a mechanic in Tatu, so sourcing one would be alot easier.
 Fly out from Stanstead for £70 , buy one for pennies and helluva roadtrip home.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote madra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 10 at 16:47
Originally posted by ELVIS ELVIS wrote:

...how about a UAZ ? 452 or 3303...


you mean those ones that look like a 1970's bread van? - yep.  they're pretty cute.

but if you're going down the russki route, i prefer the zil131 or the gaz66

like i said however, whatever i buy will be my daily drive as well as my summer-fun mobile [coz i'm only allowed one parking spot in the flats where i live]. i can afford to be a bit on the impractical side coz, holidays aside,  i only really use my motor for the weekend shopping trip and the odd day out, coz i cycle to work. so i'm not going to be doing too many miles a week but, even then, i think a zil's 8 miles to the gallon [plus being about half as big again as an LT] might be j-u-s-t a wee bit OTT.

i did look into russian trucks before buying my LT.  i love the gaz66s and the zil131s and you can pick 'em up practically factory fresh for about 3-5 grand.  trouble is that [from what i've read], you buy one with under a thousand miles on the clock thinking you've scored yourself bargain of the century - but then have to methodically strip it down and replace every part that's got a rubber seal, coz all the rubber has perished from being stood in some bunker in eastern europe for the past twenty or thirty years.

also, they're [allegedly] not the most reliable of beasts. 

that said, if time, money and room to park were no object, you couldnae get much cooler looking than a zil 131 [converted to a suitably ginormous turbo diesel engine, of course].

couple more for the gallery:

zil 131


gaz66


uaz 452 - bread safely delivered, whatever the terrain!




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 10 at 18:52
LT 4x4's aren't as difficult to come by as you'd think! Although you will most likely have to go to Europe to avoid a price premium
Engine cranes = the ultimate tool to test the tensile strength of Everything you didn't disconnect!

- 2000 MK4 Golf GT TDi
- 1994 LT Panel Van
- 1997 LT Minibus
- 1984 Volvo/VanHool Alizee
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mcbkat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 10 at 18:57
Pinzgauer/Volvo are small, but very capable offroad, Landcruiser is bulletproof and does well offroad. Unimog are tractors.
What do you want to do? Expeditions?
LT 4x4 rules...
De Vries LT45 4X4, De Vries LT40 4x4
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ..lee.. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 10 at 19:29
generally what are these lt 4x4`s like underneath. i`m presuming most have worked for a living at some time or another and there`s lots of little cavaties under thelt  body to trap mud and damp.
 
suppose there`s good and bad about but i`m guessing ending up with a bad one could be a financial disaster. lt axles i hear are very expensive and swapping to another make of axle has problems.
 
still want one though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jam-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 10 at 19:45
Depends how handy you are with a welder and engineering. If you're up for an adventure buy and old Transit 4x4 and make it fit the LT. Given time and a bit of lateral thinking most things are possible...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rossfromfriends Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 10 at 20:29

Saw this crazy lookin Land Rover thing in Cornwall a couple years ago... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russel at syncronutz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 10 at 20:44
The above is a landover 101. Slow, noisey,very thirsty,fuc.... ugly.
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