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AAZ V's 1Z / AHU

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timmythedog View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 Jul 09 at 12:33
I know there's loads of pro's and con's to both options, but for those about to embark on the mission, whose first task may be sourcing a suitable engine, do we have a definitive breakdown/comparison to help people decide what the best option is for them??  Do you simply find the best engine you can get your hands on and then start asking questions and dealing with the challenges, OR is there a clear arguement based on available finance/ease of conversion/end result, that says "you need to find an AAZ, you need to find a 1Z" etc..  I'm posing the question cos a mate of mine(proxymoose) is heading down this road and informed opinions are pulling him in both directions.  Confused Is there a clear winner, or is it horses for courses???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monsho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 09 at 15:15
fella, its been discussed loads of time on here...

AAZ is simpler and cheaper.  You can get away with a decent standard gearbox (DK, AAP, AAR) which will save a lot of money

TDi - got a lot of electronics to sort out and install, lot more work, really need to have a taller geared gearbox as TDi makes power a lot further down rev range.

TDi is probably nicer when done, but to do properly its substantially more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timmythedog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 09 at 16:04
Cheers. Well summed up. I know there's been alot of talk about this, but never seems conclusive, so I wondered what the informed view was. As time goes by and mileage gets done i'm thinking the results get clearer all the time, and maybe opinions also change with time. So I guess it's ultimately a budget driven choice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timmythedog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 09 at 16:27
Is it the intercooler that shifts the powerband lower into the rev range, and if so would retro fitting an intercooler to an AAZ change it's character in that way?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote proxymoose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 09 at 18:47
Originally posted by monsho monsho wrote:

TDi is probably nicer when done.
 
That answers part of the question I guess but it depends on who you ask!  My research today on the Yard has shown me that:
 
  • bloke with AAZ says AAZ
  • bloke with 1Z says 1Z
  • bloke with 2.1 petrol says all day long 2.1 petrol
  • bloke with scuby says there's no t'other option worth considering
  • neighbour with 2.5tdi Audi lump says nothing compares!

Guess when all's said and done, it's horses for courses Timothy which probably answers your original question. 

 
 


Edited by proxymoose - 29 Jul 09 at 19:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rolo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 09 at 20:50
[QUOTE=timmythedog]Is it the intercooler that shifts the powerband lower into the rev range, and if so would retro fitting an intercooler to an AAZ change it's character in that way?     No not really, although they are more efficient when passing less air.   I didn`t want a big surge of power on my clutch and transmission especially when the factory decided a dual mass flywheel necessary to soften the  blow of the powerstrokes on the tdi, a stronger, box. Turned up a bit the td  will equal the power of a tdi but less economically and certainly runs much hotter. The cranknose issue can be avoided but not always simply. Bought the golf tdi sold it and bought an aaz engine but thats the start of another story. I think the aaz type td with the crank sorted is the best engine for a twenty odd year old bus thats done 200,000 mls                             

Edited by rolo - 29 Jul 09 at 21:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rolo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 09 at 07:15
Originally posted by proxymoose proxymoose wrote:

Originally posted by monsho monsho wrote:

TDi is probably nicer when done.
 
That answers part of the question I guess but it depends on who you ask!  My research today on the Yard has shown me that:
 
  • bloke with AAZ says AAZ
  • bloke with 1Z says 1Z
  • bloke with 2.1 petrol says all day long 2.1 petrol
  • bloke with scuby says there's no t'other option worth considering
  • neighbour with 2.5tdi Audi lump says nothing compares!

Guess when all's said and done, it's horses for courses Timothy which probably answers your original question. 

        
 
o  bloke with 2.0 cu petrol says 1.9td (but I love it anyway)

Edited by rolo - 31 Jul 09 at 07:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timmythedog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 09 at 09:22
That's the trouble with this world. we've all got engine envyTongue. I've got a TD, and so i think I should be looking to go to a Tdi. !  Is a 110bhp engine(pre pd) about the same job as a 90bhp? I'm guessing the ecu gets more complicated?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beelzibus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 09 at 22:48
As someone who ran a VW only breakers yard for 5 years when AAZs and TDI Golf 3s and the like were in their prime, I wouldn't ever consider an AAZ, gutless compared to a TDI for a start, but worse than that, they had a nasty propensity to drp the bottom pulley. Far too risky IMO. If you're going to the effort of an engine conversion, make sure it's a conversion worth doing.
Subaru, TDI, or similar.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timmythedog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 09 at 22:55
Were the late aaz's not cured of this problem, or is that just a wishful rumour?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beelzibus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 09 at 23:01
Many were rebuilt with a modified lower pulley and bolt, but as far as I'm concerned they're still fatally flawed, and with the TDI being such an improvement in both power and smothness, as well as better economy and less noisy, why bother with an AAZ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BUS.BOY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 09 at 23:15
Originally posted by proxymoose proxymoose wrote:

Originally posted by monsho monsho wrote:

TDi is probably nicer when done.
 
  • neighbour with 2.5tdi Audi lump says nothing compares!


 
 


i agree with your neighbour !



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beelzibus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 09 at 23:19
My concern with the 2.5 TDI 5 pot from the Audi is that they weren't that frugal (for a diesel) in the cars they were fitted to. What mpg are you getting in a T3?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BUS.BOY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 09 at 23:34
i am getting about 400 miles from a tank on a run but i have a longer diff and fifth gear fitted, and my
e.c.u is chipped !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baxter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 09 at 23:52
AAZ is Easy (cheap)
TDI isn't that easy (expensive)
 
That's what usually makes the decision for you.
 
AAZ will work with standard box, TDI will also, really badly though.
 
AAZ Conversion cost all in under 2 grand.
 
TDI Conversion probably around 5 grand.
 
If the van is only worth 3 grand would you spend 5 on a engine conversion?
 
Didn't think so.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beelzibus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 09 at 23:58
Forgetting those that pay others to do everything for them, I can't see how an AAZ swap could swallow 2K, let alone 5K for a TDI, the donor cars are all cheap as nowadays.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baxter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 09 at 00:03
labour and parts?
 
TDI there is at least £1500 to spend on the gearbox alone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beelzibus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 09 at 00:06
Like I said, excluding those who pay others to do all the work for them. ;)
Surely there are plenty of TDIs running around sensibly enough without having spent £1500 on gearbox parts alone?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baxter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 09 at 00:10
Depends if you want it right or not, fairly pointless putting TDI on a standard box as it will go about 65 flat out, all power much further down rev range meaning either a taller 5th or best way is a new ring and pinion but to change that you have to completely strip the box.
I've seen cheap TDI's they are well funny!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rolo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 09 at 09:36
Later aaz,1y, aef have tdi type cranks, my engine revolves on one, its an aef. This is the last time i`ll write this coz it must be on a search by now and it`s boring or I am, and old and grumpy and it`s raining and paint blooms this weather and there`s stuff to do that just doesn`t involve rain and watching it and pc`s.           AND there`s aazs  that aren`t gutless, better go now before I start reading about 300bhp 1y,s

Edited by rolo - 01 Aug 09 at 09:42
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